Last Sunday we looked at Romans 13:1 and saw that every believer is to be in subjection to our governing authorities because every authority comes from God. In light of Barak Obama being sworn in as our next President later this month, this was a difficult message for many to hear and receive. Below are some questions or statements that I received after last Sunday’s message and a quick one or two line response to each of them:
How can God expect me to be in subjection to a President who is pro choice? Yes, President Elect Obama is pro choice. But please remember that Nero was an emperor who was one of the fiercest persecutors of Christians in the history of the world. Yet, Paul admonished the believers in Rome to be in subjection to their governing authorities including Nero. In the same way, I believe that we are obligated by Scripture to be in subjection to our new President in spite of the fact that he is pro choice.
So were the Whigs wrong back in the days of the American Revolution? Back in the days of the American Revolution there were two groups…the Whigs who were for the revolution and the Torries who were loyal to the king. Based on my understanding of history and what led to the Revolution, I would have to say that the Whigs were not backed by Scripture. That does not mean that God has not ultimately blessed the birth and progress of our nation, but if I would have been alive in those days, living solely by Scripture, I would have had to have remained loyal to the King.
If God has already chosen who is going to be our leaders, why vote? Hasn’t God already chosen who is going to be saved? Of course He has. Then why share Jesus with anybody? The answer is simple…because it is our responsibility. Has God already determined who will be our next leaders? Sure He has. Then why vote? The answer is the same…because it is our responsibility.
The Romans 13 passage does not apply to us because we live under a different form of government than existed under the Roman Empire. What other parts of Scripture are we going to disregard on the basis that the culture of that day was different than it was today. Folks, listen, the principle of Romans 13 transcends culture. If the Bible only relates to the culture of the day in which it was written, why are we wasting time with it?
It’s not fair that the left disrespected President Bush but we have to respect President Elect Obama. There are a lot of things in life that aren’t fair. But just because others do not live by the principles of Scripture does not mean that we shouldn’t.
Does respecting our leaders mean we can’t disagree with them? There is nothing wrong or unbiblical about disagreeing. It is how we disagree that matters. It is possible to disagree and still show respect. Unfortunately, too many Christians today equate the right to disagree with the right to be cruel. I again draw your attention to Romans 6 when Daniel was thrown into a lion’s den but still showed respect to King Darius.
How can God expect me to be in subjection to a President who is pro choice? Yes, President Elect Obama is pro choice. But please remember that Nero was an emperor who was one of the fiercest persecutors of Christians in the history of the world. Yet, Paul admonished the believers in Rome to be in subjection to their governing authorities including Nero. In the same way, I believe that we are obligated by Scripture to be in subjection to our new President in spite of the fact that he is pro choice.
So were the Whigs wrong back in the days of the American Revolution? Back in the days of the American Revolution there were two groups…the Whigs who were for the revolution and the Torries who were loyal to the king. Based on my understanding of history and what led to the Revolution, I would have to say that the Whigs were not backed by Scripture. That does not mean that God has not ultimately blessed the birth and progress of our nation, but if I would have been alive in those days, living solely by Scripture, I would have had to have remained loyal to the King.
If God has already chosen who is going to be our leaders, why vote? Hasn’t God already chosen who is going to be saved? Of course He has. Then why share Jesus with anybody? The answer is simple…because it is our responsibility. Has God already determined who will be our next leaders? Sure He has. Then why vote? The answer is the same…because it is our responsibility.
The Romans 13 passage does not apply to us because we live under a different form of government than existed under the Roman Empire. What other parts of Scripture are we going to disregard on the basis that the culture of that day was different than it was today. Folks, listen, the principle of Romans 13 transcends culture. If the Bible only relates to the culture of the day in which it was written, why are we wasting time with it?
It’s not fair that the left disrespected President Bush but we have to respect President Elect Obama. There are a lot of things in life that aren’t fair. But just because others do not live by the principles of Scripture does not mean that we shouldn’t.
Does respecting our leaders mean we can’t disagree with them? There is nothing wrong or unbiblical about disagreeing. It is how we disagree that matters. It is possible to disagree and still show respect. Unfortunately, too many Christians today equate the right to disagree with the right to be cruel. I again draw your attention to Romans 6 when Daniel was thrown into a lion’s den but still showed respect to King Darius.
15 comments:
I agree with subjection to our leaders based on what scripture states, but I have two "what if" scenarios for exception to subjection I'd like your opinion on. (Based on your sermon notes, the only specific exception to subjection is when a law or command requires us to disobey God)
If our leaders gave our country the command to turn our backs on Israel or forced us by law to except same sex marriage..Are we to respect the leadership but not subject to it?
Anonymous,
There are many interesting "what if" scenarios that could be addressed. With each one of them I would say that each of us individually would have to seek the leading of God as to our response. If we are going to rebel against any authority, we need to be sure of two things.
First, we need to be sure that it is really God who is leading us to do so and second, we need to be sure that we are willing to suffer the consequences that come with disobeying authority.
Hey Scott,
I have a hard time knowing "my" hard earned money is going towards abortions. I was venting my frustration to Mark the other day. He responded by asking "Is it your responsiblity to pay taxes?" I said "Yes". Then he asked "Is it your responsiblity to decide where the money goes?" of course I sheepishly responded "no". This really helped me get the right perspective on the issue! But at the same time its a hard thing to accept. But it does cause me to pray for the governing authorities as well as being so thankful that God is in control!!
When we show our respect for other living things, they respond with respect for us. - an Arapaho Proverb
(If BHO can't respect the innocent life of an unborn infant, he certainly will never earn their respect, now will he?)
To respect a person is not possible without knowing him; care and responsibility would be blind if they were not guided by knowledge. Erich Fromm
(BHO has given us clear knowledge of who and what he is and stands for, and given that knowledge leaves him low on the learned respect totem pole.
Additionally, his lack of experience, lack of knowledge on hearing and responding not only the cry of the unborn for life, but also much of the heart of America for the same, and the pleading of God's Holy Spirit, again leave him low on the respect give totem pole.)
I may have to accept living in Christian subjection to BHO's leadership(?), and I may have Christian responsibility to pray for him, and I may have respect for him as one human to another, BUT I don't owe him one iota of voluntary respect for his current expressed views and planned actions under the guise of leadership, let alone as President; he's going to have to earn that, and that may take work, on his part,..... and on mine.
GOD HELP US ALL.....PLEASE!
(signed)
A Reader
A Reader...Those are interesting thoughts and I understand where you are coming from, but Daniel still showed respect to the King even after he threw him into the lion's den. As a follower of Christ, I believe I have a duty to respect my authorities, even if I do not agree with them!
Janice...your husband is wise (but don't tell him I said that...it will go to his head!)! I am going to be dealing with the very issue you write about in week 3 of this message series (Jan 18) here at Grace! Why don't you come out for a visit so you can hear it?
I will obey the laws of the land and pray for our new president and support him in ways that do not go against my biblical beliefs and conscience. If there would come a time when I had to disobey after much prayer and conviction, then I would also take the consequences.
Amen, Dave. I beleive that is exactly the teaching of Romans 13:1-7. Thanks for reading and commenting!
Rather than spending our time deciding whether we should respect a pro-choice president, perhaps we should be out adopting orphaned babies and loving on single moms. If you don’t do either of those then maybe you should just not comment on the pro-life/choice issue. If, as a body, we stopped complaining about the horrors of abortion and left wing presidents and instead spent our energy cracking down on poverty I believe the amount of abortions in America would greatly decrease. And I'm not trying to say that the submission topic is unimportant; just that Jesus is probably more concerned about the well-being of the women facing this difficult decision than stance that our president takes on the subject.
Ty, I would have to agree with you. Dr. Falwell use to always say that it does no good to curse the darkness if we are not willing to light a candle. Thanks for reading and commenting.
Hi Pastor Scott,
I have a question regarding the section on your 1/8 Subjection blog regarding the question "If God has already chosen who is going to be our leaders, why vote?". What you wrote sounds like God has chosen certain people to be saved and has chosen that certain people cannot be saved? Is that true? Can you please explain it to me?
beangirl,
I cannot go into detail in this quick response but I do believe that God has chosen in advance those who will be saved. However, at the same time, I believe that free will is still a part. In other words, I do not believe in what is called "double predestination"...in choosing who would be saved, I do not believe that He has chosen who would go to hell. Very deep, I know, but that is my short answer.
Pastor Scott,
The signers of the Declaration of Independence suffered great hardship. They were persued and persecuted by the british. Many people today don't realize some were jailed and tortured, along w/ their families.
But Thomas Jefferson wrote," When a goverment becomes abusive of it's power, it is the right, nay, it is the duty, of the people to rise up and overthrow that government"
Yes there are consequnces to rebellion, But, since God doesn't audibly speak to us, We have only his written word, and our conscience to guide us.
I was always taught, the power of prayer is stronger than any sword.
You said God holds contempt for rebels. So, God was angy w/ the founding fathers? since we'
re a product of that revolution, has his contempt reached across two and a quarter centuries?
Well, maybe not! I'm sure he has plenty else to angry with.
Paul Whiskeyman
It's an interesting discussion, isn't it Paul? Yet, I still would have to say that the Christians in Rome had it worse under Nero than the those in the revolutionary days did under the Brittish. Yet, God still told them to be in subjection to their governing authorities. Jefferson may have taught overthrowing the government, but personally, I don't see it in Scripture.
This very topic was debated heavily in American and British churches 1764-74, splitting several congregations. Like then, my students are usually split on the issue but before long, after the central gov't crosses certain lines, most decide to solemnly join the rebels. they don't celebrate it; they see it as a necessity to maintain their own belief systems, esp. when the central gov't passed the enabling, the church of england, and coercive acts. these lines still exist, and i think it's when the gov't forces you to do something that you're morally against. for example, obama is not "pro-abortion," he doesn't believe that the gov't should be able to force you to have one, like in china. he simply agrees with the 5th, 9th and 10th amendments that prevent government action in this arena. if you're against abortion, then don't have one; adopt a child. on a similar note, my source of frustration, why is it that after 9/11 a precious few were asked to sacrifice everything while the rest of the country, led by the gov't, with tactic support of too many of my neighbors, went not only partied on, but wanted their taxes cut in a time of war like selfish little children, leading to the greatest debt in our history and our greatest strategic threat in over 60 years. that, i think, is grossly immoral. why should those who ate sand, or our children, or grandchildren be forced to pay a debt that they themselves did not incur? why should they sink into the abyss with a $10 trillion dollar debt ensconced to their feet like cement blocks, being tossed overboard by our mob-like pay to play gov't? should these people separate from this gov't? I don’t know, yet. can they? i believe so as most will simply remain on the side lines worrying about their own nests, just like from 1775-82. but when one passively resists by leaving the country, by removing himself from an immoral government, and when he or she is stopped by that country that he or she thinks is immoral, then I believe, and I believe that Brother Jesus would back me on this, that I not only have the duty, but the right to defend myself, my family, and my associates, by force of arms is necessary. if the gov't tries to stop us with force for wanting to leave, then force is justified--just like in 1776. live free or die!
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